Refining and marketing your niche

Hollie Arnett  0:00  

I was good at it and it was like a zone of excellence of mine, but my zone of genius is actually the strategic thinking and the coaching. So I decided, okay, screw it. I'm gonna do it. And so that's where, how I ended up where I am now. And I through that process also realized the people that I wanted to work with. So I want to work with creatives.

Emma Peacock  0:32  

Welcome to the Digital Hive Podcast where we talk all things Digital Marketing for small businesses. On this episode, I spoke with Holly Arnett of Maker and Moxie about marketing her brand strategy and coaching business. We talk about why she decided to change the brand's name recently, communicating the message to the right people, and community over competition. Maker and Moxie is on a mission to help creators build their brand, share their work and own their moxie. Holly provides coaching strategy, resources, and events that help creatives find clarity and take action so they can build a business they're proud of and step confidently into their next level. I hope you enjoy listening to this chat about the whole journey through brand, marketing, and sales. Hi, Holly. Welcome to the podcast. It's so good to have you.

Hollie Arnett  1:16  

Hello, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here chatting to you.

Emma Peacock  1:20  

Nice. So to start us off, tell us about you and your business.

Hollie Arnett  1:27  

For sure. So yeah, my name is Holly on it. And I am the founder of Maker & Moxie. And we do brand strategy and coaching for creatives. So that's I don't know how much detail you want me to go into. But that's us in a nutshell.

Emma Peacock  1:41  

Yeah, that's right. I have plenty of more questions for you about. Um, so you have recently changed the name from Black & White Studios to Maker & Moxie. Um, tell us about kind of like the reasoning behind that shift. And like how you kind of came to that conclusion?

Hollie Arnett  2:01  

Yeah, for sure. So, I started my business about four or five years ago very quickly. And I chose a name quickly that would work. And at the time, I was doing hand lettering and typography design. That's what my business was. Obviously, its changed a lot since then. So Black & White Studios kind of made sense, because I was a typography studio and I focused on my personal work was all basically black and white, like very minimal, black and white design. And yeah, it worked. It was something that was very quick and did the job. But I never really fully loved it. And it there are a few reasons why I realized we needed to change. One is that the whole time since then, I've always been like tagged in things about like black and white photography. There are a lot of other businesses called black and white, something like there's a whole coffee company in New Zealand called Black and White Coffee. And there's another studio just opened up somewhere in Auckland, I think called like Black and White Design Studios or something like that photography studios or something. So it's always getting tagged and like other people's things, or things to do with black and white photography, which is not related to what I did it all. But also, what I actually do has shifted a lot who I work with has shifted a lot like the clarity on the transformation that we provide, and the impact that we want to have. And the vision that we want to have has all changed so much. And so Black & White Studios doesn't or didn't speak to any of that anymore. It wasn't aligned with the vision for where we're going, didn't speak to anybody in particular at all. It didn't really feel like the vibe or the energy that we have as a company. And yeah, it just wasn't aligned with any of those things. So it wasn't like a split decision that I decided I needed to change but just over, over the years, it's become more and more clear that it needed to change and it just reached a point where like, it actually felt like it was stopping us from moving forward and stepping into like our vision in the future for Maker and Moxie, so yeah, that's why, why it's all changed.

Emma Peacock  4:26  

I feel like for me, like the thing that became for me synonymous with your brand was actually orange. So I always like I would like obviously remembered the business name but like whenever I saw anything on social it was the orange that made me you, made me know it was you. So it was like but that carries through, right you've kept that...

Hollie Arnett  4:45  

Yeah

Emma Peacock  4:46  

...completely and in a way it almost like suits your name better in a way like a perfectly translates. Which like as much as a color can do. It's like I guess it's kind of like Tiffany blue in a way of like, yeah, I mean, hopefully nobody else is stealing your exact orange because that

Hollie Arnett  5:06  

but I think like, that is, um, you know, a testament to the power of like, branding, not that I'm trying to convince anybody of like my job, but color does influence like recognition increases up to like 80%. And so many people recognize me just like you do from that color orange. And when I asked people what they thought the name was going to change to, they said, Is it going to be something to do with orange? Or is it going to be like pink and orange studios or something like that? Because it has become so synonymous, which I think helped with the name change, because like you said, like, the colors and the design has all stayed the same. It's just the the name thats changed that, which has made it a lot easier, I think.

Emma Peacock  5:55  

Yeah. So your offerings changed a bit over the years? Because I've actually been following you for, I would say, but how long have you been in business? Like,

Hollie Arnett  6:02  

like four years? Four and a half? I think.

Emma Peacock  6:07  

Yeah, so I think I've been following you for like at least three. And I think at the start, you were offering more like services and that typography kind of work. So how did you transition to what you're doing now? Like, how did that morph over time? And how did you land on your kind of, like, what you love the most?

Hollie Arnett  6:26  

Yeah, um, so I started, as I said, doing typography and lettering, because that's, and still is something that I really love. Like, when Maker Moxie is like, up and running and is like, you know, living on its own without me, I want to go back and be able to just be an artist. And that's my dream. But anyway, so I started off doing typography and lettering, which led me to doing hand lettered logos, because people were always like, Oh, can you handle it on my logo? Can you design my logo for me. And as I was doing that, I realized, well, actually, you can't just do the logo, the logo doesn't exist, or you can't really do a successful brand without everything that comes with a logo like colors, fonts, you need a full suite of logos, not just one like everything. And then through that process, I was already kind of doing like brand strategy, as I was doing that, but not charging for it as a separate thing. It was just included in the branding process because you kind of have to do some version of it in order to get a successful brand. And so I realized, okay, this is actually what I really, really love. And I did course I went through a course that recommended doing the StrengthsFinder test. And I had already been thinking about doing just brand strategy. But I was a little bit scared of doing that. And the StrengthsFinder test, which I had done in the past, but I redid it highlighted that actually, my strengths are in strategic thinking and relationship building, not an execution and not an influence. And so I realized, like, actually what I'm really good at and what I love to do, and the impact that I want to have all align with, which is the things that make up like your purpose, all aligned with being a brand strategist and a coach because I had always just loved more of the big picture thinking helping somebody turn their idea or their dream into a reality, coaching them through setting all of that up and kind of cheerleading them along the way and helping them realize that it's possible and all of that great stuff, rather than actually moving the pixels around and designing the logos and stuff like that, like I was good at it. And it was like a zone of excellence of mine, but my zone of genius is actually the strategic thinking and the coaching. So I decided, okay, screw it. I'm gonna do it. And so that's where, how I ended up where I am now. And I through that process, I also realized the people that I wanted to work with, so I want to work with creatives. That's who I am, as you know, I'm an artist. And I have done all the things that artists do like being tried to get into exhibitions, being at markets, like, all of that stuff. And yeah, they were my favorite clients to work with. And I didn't, I had kind of sort of been falling down the trap of like, working with people who I thought I should be working with. But then I realized nah, that's not for me. creatives are my people. That's where I'm at. So, yeah, and I think how I've been able to transition that is just by being good at brand strategy, like I've been able to transition my positioning and help grow what people know me for. So that in each of those stages, people knew me as the thing that I was doing. So made it, yeah, easier to transition because I have that ability to build that like, recognition, and yeah, people remembering what I do.

Emma Peacock  10:19  

Yeah, for sure. So maybe walk us through each of the different ways that people can work with you, because I feel like that will help people to understand how you kind of go about your marketing is to kind of understand what you're marketing first.

Hollie Arnett  10:34  

Yeah, for sure. So I have my signature service is a one on one brand strategy. And you can either do that as just the strategy or the strategy plus three months coaching, afterwards. And then I also have one off coaching session. So for people who are like, I just want to talk to you for an hour about this part of my strategy, or whatever. And then I have product. So I have resources that are at a lower price for people who want to DIY or just do a certain part of the branding. And then this last quarter, I also just ran for the first time a group version of my strategy. So that's kind of a newer thing that I've run once and will be running again in September. So yeah, that's my suite, I have one on one services, group services, and then products.

Emma Peacock  11:39  

Yeah, so it's, I mean, in a way, it's kind of like the same. It's all based around the same thing, but it's different delivery, that works for people either with like, the way that they work or how their budget is, as well.

Hollie Arnett  11:53  

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. My mission is always to make like branding as accessible and achievable for anybody, no matter like where you're at, or what resources you have, like branding can be very, people are a little bit like you have to invest like $1000s for it to and work with a brand strategist for it to be valid or good. That's not what I believe. I'm like, no, we can make it work. And I can help you out as much as I can with the budget that you have, and the resources and the time that you have available. So that's why I have kind of a suite of options.

Emma Peacock  12:33  

Yeah. So walk us through, like how you market the business as a whole, both online and offline.

Hollie Arnett  12:41  

Yeah. So offline has been a little bit more difficult lately. But I used to be very, very active in like the local creative community, I used to run a design assembly, which was a organization that ran events for designers, and all around the country. So I would go and run those events, right. So I built quite a good network from there. I managed, I got connected with all the speakers that I got to come and talk at the events and things like that, and the attendees and everybody involved. So that was really helpful in terms of offline, I've always been a big fan of like, going to events and giving back to the creative community. Like I always go back and speak at my university, I'm still in the same city that I studied in, so I go back and teach and I go back and speak and go to like, I spoke at creative mornings and things like that. So I just love being involved in local events and communities and things like that. And I think that's a really great way to market indirectly by just growing that network. And then online, I think I do a lot of things online. But I primarily focus my attention on Instagram as my kind of short-form or like micro-content on Instagram and then I have a blog and a podcast, which is the same content but written and audio and a newsletter. And so those are kind of my main focuses and then sometimes I dabble in like I uploaded a couple of videos to Tik Tok just to see what would happen and I tweet about when a podcast episode comes out but I don't like focus my attention on those and yeah, I, I don't know how, yeah, how much detail you want me to go into in terms of like how I market on those platforms but I guess those are the the ones that I focus on is, yeah, Instagram for like my micro- content and then my macro stuff is yeah the podcast and the blog posts.

Emma Peacock  14:57  

How do you plan everything? Do you sit down and kind of like do everything all at once, or is it like off the cuff kind of content?

Hollie Arnett  15:07  

Um, the macro stuff is very planned. So I work with a SEO content strategist, and she every quarter goes through my website analytics and looks at like, what I'm ranking for, or what I need to be ranking for, or how we can improve or topics that she thinks would help. And then I go through those and figure out like, what ones I want to use, what ones I don't want to use, I think about what things I have coming up, like if I have a launch coming up, and I want to do a podcast around that topic, like the name change, for example, we did podcast episodes about changing a name, things like that. And then I work with a, I have a podcast manager, so I have to be quite organized with that. So that is all very planned. So we have like a master document that is planned in advance, like, what episode is going to be coming out on what day and it's planned like a quarter in advance, we plan that basically a quarter at a time. The micro stuff like on Instagram is a lot more like off the cuff, I more plan that like weekly or monthly at a push. I'm not very good at like planning in advance other than big things. So like for big campaigns or big launches, then I can plan sort of more in advance or I have sort of recurring things that happened that I know are going to happen every week or every month, like series that I do, or promoting the podcast is going to come out every week, that kind of thing. But otherwise, I basically plan all the other content the week of when it comes to that.

Emma Peacock  16:47  

Who are you, are you thinking of like a target audience when you're doing all of this? Or do you have like a specific person in mind? How do you kind of approach who you're creating for?

Hollie Arnett  16:58  

Yes, so I definitely have a very clear target audience. My target audience is like creators and makers who are trying to build their creative business. And like I said, because I have been that person, I often am thinking, what would I want to know? Like, if I think about me, starting out as a hand lettering artist, I'm like, flipping what did I need to know? What was I thinking about? What was I panicking about? What was I feeling unsure about? What do I need help with that kind of thing. But then I also think about, like the clients that I've worked with, because the most all the clients I've worked with as a brand strategist have been ideal clients of mine. So I just have kind of them in mind. And as a brand strategist, I have like a target audience or avatar, or whatever you want to call them about my target audience. So I have kind of that in mind as well as I'm creating.

Emma Peacock  18:00  

Once you shifted to the strategy, has that person kind of like refined over time, or have you always had that same kind of avatar of essentially like your younger self.

Hollie Arnett  18:12  

No its changed over time, because when I was designing, I was basically designing for anybody. I was just like anybody who needs kind of my style of design or likes, wants to work with me and likes my work, then fine. But now I'm a lot more like selective or have a much more clearer idea of the kind of person that I want to talk to. So yeah, yeah, it's changed in that way, I guess.

Emma Peacock  18:43  

So you spoke about having a podcast producer and an SEO and content strategist, um, outside of there. Do you have any other people helping you? How do you manage all that kind of thing?

Hollie Arnett  18:55  

Yeah, so I, up until I would say six months ago was doing everything myself. And then I had a realization that if I want to go anywhere, and grow and actually have some kind of, like personal life, I need to start outsourcing which was scary, but very good. So I kind of went all in and I was like, everybody take everything away from me. So yeah, I have the podcast manager. So I used to have just an editor. They just edited the podcast and then I still was doing a lot of like scheduling or blog post writing and caption writing like all everything but now I have a full manager so they do everything. I just do the then promoting on Instagram and newsletter and everything. SEO content person does that quarterly so that's them. And then I have a VA who does five hours a week for me um a virtual assistant. So that's just she does a lot of admin. things a lot of like project management things, just keeping things on track. Like I said, execution is not actually a great skill of mine. And so she's very good at like, following up with me and making sure I'm doing things and stuff like that, because I just get off in like visionary land. And then I also have a designer who just does like ad hoc things for me here and there. So she designs like graphics for the podcast. If I'm creating a resource, she'll help me put that together. Creating graphics for Pinterest, like things like that. She just does little things along the way that we need. And that's, that's it.

Emma Peacock  20:39  

Yeah. So that's like your ongoing team. Right? Because you had someone, someone helped you with your website, right?

Hollie Arnett  20:45  

Yes, yeah. So yeah, he did when I redesigned the website. So I designed it, and then he built it and web flow for me. And then if I need updates that I can't do myself, a lot of it I can do myself. But there are some things like if we need to build anything brand new, then I go back to him to get him to do that. But yeah.

Emma Peacock  21:10  

There when you need them.

Hollie Arnett  21:12  

Yeah.

Emma Peacock  21:12  

That kind of a thing. Exactly.

Hollie Arnett  21:13  

Yeah.

Emma Peacock  21:16  

Alrighty, so with your service of brand strategy, and then you have kind of the coaching? How do you balance communicating about both in your marketing? Or do you just kind of communicate about the overall like common parts, and then people kind of pick apart once they get to your website? How does that work?

Hollie Arnett  21:39  

I try and communicate both things separately, now and again. So like, I just try and change it up so that people can get the full picture, I guess. So I'm not always talking about the whole thing. Like, sometimes I'll talk about the power of like, having coaching after you've done a strategy. Sometimes I'm just talking about, like, why strategy is really helpful, or what part of strategy will help you in your business, like I'm talking about different bits, I guess. And then when people either talk to me about working with me, or they are on the website, that's when they can sort of decide which is best for them, I suppose. And I have, you know, information on the website, and talk to them about the benefits of both. When I'm talking to them, one on one, I guess, if they're weighing up both options. And coaching, I guess, can also be added on afterwards. So some people don't think they need it at the beginning, and then go through the process. And then they're like, Oh, actually, I think I want to keep going with you and have your support for longer. So then that's when it kind of comes through. But I talk about, I talk about both kind of as equally as I can. And for me, they sort of come hand in hand anyway. Because as I'm doing my strategy process, like we have a Slack channel where we're talking, and I'm coaching them all the time. So even as I'm working away on their strategy, they can ask me questions, or we can talk about stuff as we're going along. So they're very intertwined for me. Anyway, and I just am kind of a natural coaching along the way, kind of person. But yeah, so it's a bit of a balance, I think of talking about them both through my marketing. Yeah.

Emma Peacock  23:37  

Hmm. So going back to your email marketing, how do you approach that? Is it kind of like when people subscribe, they go through a sequence? Or do you have like the newsletter kind of thing? Or do you do like, both? Walk us through that?

Hollie Arnett  23:53  

Yeah, so I had both. So anytime anybody signs up to anything of mine, they will go through a welcome sequence that's like tailored to whatever they've signed up to. So it's different depending on whether they've signed up to like my checklist or my challenge, they get a different welcome. And then after that, they'll go through, they'll just be added to like the newsletter, my general, I guess, list. And I email, try to email my list every week, as in kind of like a newsletter format, and then I will just do additional emails if there's sort of a launch or an event or something big happening, and then I'll do more of a separate campaign. But yeah, basically a bit of both. Well, they, everybody gets a welcome and then everybody gets the newsletter. And then if I'm launching, I will just target certain segments mostly. So either people who have already shown interest in a certain offer or have downloaded like say I am launching something related to brand strategy they might have already bought, the products that I have that are like the mini DIY version. So I can sort of segment those people.

Emma Peacock  25:12  

How long is your welcome sequence?

Hollie Arnett  25:15  

Oh, off the top of my head. I think it's like, the one for my checklist is I think like three or four emails and probably over the space of a week maybe. So there's like an initial like, Hey, thanks for downloading. This is what you've downloaded and like, hit reply to tell me like what you want to learn about brand strategy or why you've signed up? And then I have, I think, an additional bonus that I've send them. And then, yeah, a couple more emails. I think after that.

Emma Peacock  25:51  

If you're launching, do you stop the people in the welcome sequence from seeing the launch content? Or is it kind of just like, if you see it, you see it.

Hollie Arnett  26:00  

I remove people who are currently in a welcome or like onboarding sequence, because I don't want them to be bombarded. Like you're already going through the sequence. That's, you know, that's enough for you. And then like, they'll get the newsletter, I think anyway, so if I'm promoting something, and it's included in the newsletter, they'll see it that way. So I'm not Yeah, bombarding them with everything all at once.

Emma Peacock  26:28  

If you're listening to this episode, and wondering how you can market your own business, I might just have the solution for you. The Marketing Apiary is the one stop shop course for digital marketing, teaching you everything you need to know to be seen, make sales, and grow your business online. With videos across honing your one ability, putting your best foot forward, getting the numbers straight, helping people find you content marketing, growing with advertising, and passing the torch to your team. We cover every platform and angle you can approach marketing through a process I call the seven stages of suite marketing. Since DIYing everything alone and molding everything for your business can bring up a lot of questions, and maybe some decision fatigue. We have Q&A calls every two weeks, so you can submit your questions and receive answers customized for your business from me, even if you can't attend those calls live. To find out more, you can pause the episode and go to the marketingapiary.com or find the link in the shownotes once you're done listening, for now, let's get back to the episode.

Emma Peacock  27:29  

So with the podcast and the blog, do you have almost like maybe not like a funnel? But like how do you usher people towards say like the next step from one piece of content through to maybe like closer to that sale?

Hollie Arnett  27:46  

Yteah. So with the podcast, we just include, like call to actions in the show notes and description and everything. And that then gets people to download the opt in. And we use a specific opt in depending on what the podcast topic is. So it's like I've a few different opt ins. So we just choose the most relevant one. And then, so that gets them into the funnel. And then each blog post kind of has a similar system. So at the bottom of the blog post or throughout the blog post, it will either have like a banner that links to an opt in, or at the bottom, there'll be a form, like an embedded form in the blog post so they can sign up to that and then the same thing. So it's not, I'm usually not trying to get them straight from the free content to a paid thing. It's normally like, okay, you've enjoyed this free, like un-gated content that's just out there in the wild, then you can come if you want to download my opt in, and you can come and hang out with me and my emails, and then hopefully, excuse me, then that will lead to them coming and working with me.

Emma Peacock  29:08  

Do you have any idea of how long in general it takes someone to get from? Because there's some patience they're like,

Hollie Arnett  29:17  

Yeah, for sure.

Emma Peacock  29:19  

How long it takes someone to get from like first, I guess. I mean, it's different for everyone, because it depends on when you're launching.

Hollie Arnett  29:26  

And also I think people are so people are so different, right? I've listened to a podcast or something recently that I can't remember what it was, but they were talking about how some people are like fast action takers. And I'm one of these people like if I find somebody say I'm googling, like SEO, for example, not that I would do this because I already have a great SEO person. But say I'm looking, like googling SEO and I find this person who is a great resource and then I start browsing the website. And then I say, oh, they have this course. That seems perfect for me. I just, I'm like, cool done. So I'm probably one of those people who are like, whoa, where did they? Where did Holly come from? And I think that happens, you know, to me, sometimes theres people where I like woah, they just found me, they hopped on, they downloaded the freebie, and now they've, like, bought my offer or whatever. But then there are people who I know who have been on my list for like, years. And then eventually they're like, okay, now I'm ready to work with you. Or people have told me that they, excuse me, have me like on their vision board, which is just honestly the sweetest thing I like, I had a couple of people who said this to me, and it just made me so emotional. But like, those are people who it's, it's gonna take longer. And they're like, I know, I'm gonna work with you eventually. But it just takes longer. So there's different people have different like, buying and learning styles. I think some people are like, yep, just give me that. Now, you seem great. Some people are like, no, I need to think about it for a lot longer and process. That's why you'll get people who will buy on day one of a launch and people who will buy it like, last minute.

Emma Peacock  31:14  

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I feel like I'm kind of in the middle. Feel like I'm like, I will sign up. I won't wait like, forever long. But I'll follow for long enough that I can almost like check that someone is like consistently talking about the same thing that I initially connected with so that that wasn't just like, maybe like a throwaway comment that I like, really jived with, but then the rest of what they talk about maybe wasn't that but I make I think, who really quickly, but then I thought

Hollie Arnett  31:50  

Yeah, nice. Yeah, I'm a very like, just in time learner. So I don't like, follow somebody really, or like, buy something from them that I'm not gonna use, like now. I will just be like, okay, right now I'm focused on Pinterest. And I'm going to go and find somebody who's good at Pinterest. So I just yeah, no, but more like, right now.

Emma Peacock  31:51  

Yeah. And you know, what you want before, you know, like, you're, you're actively deciding to look for something rather than like, you know, so and so is quite persuasive, so now I feel like I need Pinterest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Um, so then, would you say that the brand name shift has probably been your most recent launch?

Hollie Arnett  32:44  

Yes, yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Emma Peacock  32:46  

Yeah. I mean, you kind of still in it like, a little bit, I guess.

Hollie Arnett  32:50  

Yeah. I mean, it's only been, what, two weeks today? Two weeks today. So yes, still transitioning. A lot of back end things over like Google Drive folders and emails and things like that. But yeah, that's been my recent, most recent launch. And I think before there must have been either my shop or the group program. Yeah.

Emma Peacock  33:18  

Nice. So walk us through kind of how you approach the launch, because you've talked about it on your podcast, I imagine theres been some email stuff happening. And then you've been on, on social, like you kind of like, teased it and then announced kind of a thing. So how have you kind of approached communicating that? And actually, actually, like, walk us through your launch a little bit?

Hollie Arnett  33:43  

Yeah, for sure. So I wanted it to be. I guess I didn't want to just announce right away, like, the name changing and here it is. Because I felt like that would be very kind of jarring for me. But also for like my audience, right? I wanted it to be sort of a seamless change. So I wanted to warm people up to the fact like, so at the beginning, I said, something big is happening. And I got people to like, guess what they thought it was and things like that fun stuff. Then, I think a week later I said, okay, the name is changing. Guess what you think the name is? Because I wanted to sort of ease people into the change, I guess, and bring people along for the journey so that it would be like a fun thing that we're all involved in and everybody could get behind, I guess. So. Yeah. So week two, I was like, okay, the name is changing. And then a week later, I said, here's the new name. And I did that primarily on Instagram, and my email newsletter. So that was, yeah, just done basically through those weekly I did weekly emails about it. And I did, like weekly announcements on Instagram. And then in between I was like teasing stuff or showing like, hey, I'm working on the new thing, or getting people to guess what they thought the name was or things like that, to keep people engaged, I guess. And then when it launched, like the name launched, I planned a whole week of name related content. So I created Instagram content, because I wanted it to sort of also be like a learning or teaching opportunity. Because now that I've been through this name change process, I can share that experience in that process with anybody else who might be thinking about going through that process, or will in the future, or needs to just come up with a name in general. So I plan content about, like how you know, when you need to change your name, whether to use your business name, or your personal name. So that was on Instagram. And then we did two podcast episodes across that week. So one was like, an interview with me. Normally, I interview people, but I got my friend Amy to interview me about, like my journey and how we got to hear kind of the stuff I talked to you about earlier. And then a podcast episode that was more educational. So both of those also came out on the blog, and got shared through the email. And then I randomly got asked to be on the ConvertKit podcast to talk about it as well. So, um, that was a good, like, bonus launch week. Treat. So yeah, that was essentially the plan, just kind of a phased approach that was kind of easing people when I could create content in each sort of phase that gradually revealed more and more, and then we launched.

Emma Peacock  36:53  

Yeah, awesome. I feel like I was kind of like, brought along for the journey, even though I mean, it was a lot of I imagine in the back end, that when you do that first like something is happening. But like, you feel like you've kind of gotten the behind the scenes peek of like, and like brought along for a journey with just like, what was essentially two weeks notice. Like, yeah, when you will have been working on it for a long time.

Hollie Arnett  37:22  

You got all the fun parts of it. Yeah, we got all the admin, admin-related things. But I did talk a lot. I did an Instagram Live as well, and talked a lot about like all the admin stuff that went on behind the scenes, so that people knew like, this has been going on for a while. And this is everything that you have to do if you're going to change your name. So yeah.

Emma Peacock  37:41  

Yeah. I did think of a couple extra things there. So one, I noticed that like, when you go live on Instagram, and that kind of thing, you're doing it at what is essentially like, afternoon or evening, New Zealand time. Do you have any kind of strategy there on who your audience is in terms of are they based in New Zealand, Australia versus the US? Do you have any kind of because I've focused on the morning, but

Hollie Arnett  38:10  

yeah, so I have tried a bunch of different times. So I think either like later, or my Instagram insights says that, like 9am is when everybody is active. Every time I posted at 9am flop, nothing like super quiet as I'm like, okay, weird, but okay. And then I have started trying well, mostly have been posting in the evenings and at like eight o'clock, New Zealand time, and it's done way better. And I think that's because, well, in my mind. So Maker & Moxie is like global, obviously, I'm based in New Zealand. But we have a lot of like, audience members in the US or in the UK, or obviously in Australia as well. So in my mind, I'm like, okay, eight o'clock is like evening time for New Zealanders. We're all scrolling, you know, sitting on the couch scrolling. It's about six, five, six o'clock for Australia. So people have finished work, they again can be scrolling. And then it's sort of like very early morning for the UK. So that means that when people are waking up in the morning, not scrolling, and then I don't have any idea what time it is for the US but it seems to be seems to be a good time. So like I have used I guess like the analytics you're supposed to use, but they haven't actually resulted in the results that I would expect. So I just spent a lot of trial and error. And eight o'clock for me seems to be about the right time. So I just try and post around there and it seems to be, seems to be good. And so like I guess practically it's a good time for me because my partner streams in the evenings. So if he's streaming then I can do, I can be posting or I can be on Instagram Live in another room. So it just works out practically for me to do it then to.

Emma Peacock  40:16  

Hmm, yeah, with the podcast going live, I had to look into all the different timings and like I actually went based off of how it would sit and the new latest episodes rollout of Apple podcasts. And what worked for my schedule in terms of because I'm the person that like, wants to visually see it go live to make sure it went live, because I don't want to be posting about it on social and then people can't even access that. So I posted something at 5pm yesterday, and then kind of thought I saw a few people liking it. And then I was like, go to bed, you're in the States. But then I realized on the other side of the state, so it was like ten PM rather than twelve-thirty. Yeah, so that was funny, because kind of with that. I was like I needed to like pick a time and then stick to it for that. Knowing that it needs to be for me more, because people will just listen to the podcast when they want to listen to the podcast. Like there's no. I mean, there's an algorithm in terms of discover, but there's not an algorithm in terms of listening to a podcast.

Hollie Arnett  41:22  

Yeah, I think our podcast goes out at night like 8:30 - 9am. Yeah, but I don't promote it until later on. Yeah, yeah. But people who are subscribed, or like the email goes out at 9am for people who are subscribed to the podcast specific email. But and if you're, if you follow the podcast on Spotify or iTunes, you're going to get it immediately. But yeah, just promote it later on.

Emma Peacock  41:50  

Yeah. Um, and then the other question I had was around YouTube, because for a while there, you were doing like, weekly vlogs.

Hollie Arnett  41:58  

Yeah.

Emma Peacock  41:58  

Which I loved. And did you kind of feel like you because you're not doing those anymore? Right? I haven't just like missed something?  

Hollie Arnett  42:06  

Not at the moment.

Emma Peacock  42:07  

Yeah. Did you find that with like stories and that kind of content that you were kind of sharing some of that content there? Like on stories? Instead

Hollie Arnett  42:19  

Yeah. It was a little bit of like, crossover, for sure. It also led to the reason that I stopped was just a practicality. So the editor I had before, did audio and video. So she edited both for me at the same time, including the vlogs. But the editor I have, or the manager I have now just does audio. And I hate editing video waith a passion. I'm just, it's just not how my brain works. And I did it for a very long time before I had a podcast editor like I've made videos, all the way you can go back on my YouTube channel all the way back to like when I started uni, or like the middle of uni, so I edited videos for a long time, and I don't enjoy. So I was like, unless I can pay somebody else to edit the videos for me, which I just that's not my priority right now. Then I'm not gonna make those videos. But I do love it. And I'm also I guess, with the name change. And well, before the name change, there was a bit of, I guess, confusion about what I put on like a personal page versus a business page. And like, at the moment, my Youtube channel was Holly Arnett TV. Because there's like I said, like there's stuff from way back when I was at uni. So it doesn't make sense, really for it to be under Maker and Moxie, but then there's educational stuff that would make sense to be there. So it's just a bit of a mess at the moment. So I just I think I would need a clearer strategy if I was to do that again. But I think yeah, there is there was a bit of crossover between, I guess Instagram Stories and filming the vlogs. Yeah. I think it would be fine now because I have a bit more of a distinction. On my stories like I don't share a lot as much personal like day to day what I'm doing behind the scenes stuff. It's more very like here's what Maker & Moxie is working on right now. Or like, yeah, more business specific. So there will probably be a bit more delineation there. I think now,

Emma Peacock  44:31  

Hmm. Has there been other parts of like the marketing sphere of business that you've kind of tried decided one working in your favor or you didn't love and decided to move on from?

Hollie Arnett  44:46  

Um, yeah, I used to have a Facebook group, like a free Facebook group. That was like a marketing thing that was highly, highly recommended in a course, like a mastermind that I did the whole thing was like, okay, get people added into a Facebook group, provide value there, and then like upsell them on to whatever you're doing next. And I was like, I don't like this. I'm having to, I guess, like post in there all the time, try and keep, like conversations going and stuff like that. And I just, I don't like Facebook anyway. It's not really where like, I think a bunch of my audience hang out. It's not my favorite like UI, and things like that. So I just was like, I don't want to do this. So close the Facebook group, probably a year or so ago. So yeah, that was one that I didn't. didn't love. But I tried it. And like, I did get quite a few people in there because I ran a challenge and had my opt in leading there and stuff, but it just wasn't for me. Yeah. It's probably been a lot of other things. But that's the one that comes to mind.

Emma Peacock  45:57  

Yeah, that thing of just because you start doing something doesn't mean that you have to do it forever. Like while that feature is available. Yeah, I feel like a lot of people have gone on to something like Clubhouse and then have potentially like, not struggles, probably a bit extreme, but like, had to find that balance of when, like, I want to get on this early. But does that mean to then commit to it for the next 24 months?

Hollie Arnett  45:58  

Yeah. I think it's also like knowing that A. yes, you can quit something if you aren't enjoying it. But also B. you don't have to start something if you don't want to, like I didn't like I made an account on Clubhouse just so that my name was saved or whatever. But I was like, I don't, I don't need to be on it. It's not, like I have enough going on. And there were a lot of other reasons why I didn't get on there. But like, yeah, just being okay with like, okay, I don't need to be there. You know, just because just because a lot of other people are over there doesn't mean I have to and also Clubhouse has kind of died now. Anyway, so I feel okay with not being on there.

Emma Peacock  47:05  

Yeah, I was gonna say Twitter almost tried to do I think it was I think that was what Twitter Fleet was, if I'm remembering correctly. And I googled it the other day and found out that they canceled it. Like within three months or something they'd completely shut it down because people weren't.

Hollie Arnett  47:20  

That was Fleets was there like stories equivalent. They also had Spaces which I think they still have, but it's not as it's not very highly used. But yeah, it was exactly the same same audio hangout thing, even there, like the UI, like the layout of it was all the same. It was very weird.

Emma Peacock  47:41  

Yeah. I feel, I wonder if one day clubhouse will be acquired? And then possibly integrated. But yeah, it's funny, like no feature is exclusive to any one platform they can all that can all. Oh.

Hollie Arnett  47:52  

Yeah.

Emma Peacock  47:53  

Everything from the other

Hollie Arnett  47:53  

Stealing it? Yeah.

Emma Peacock  47:55  

Yeah. So with all of that, what you're doing now and what you've done in the past, what do you think has been the most effective in marketing your business?

Hollie Arnett  48:05  

Great question.

Emma Peacock  48:06  

And it doesn't have to be like Instagram, it could be like, I, like an approach that you've done to something or anything like that. It doesn't have to be a platform as such, but yeah, how do you think that's been the most effective for you in the past?

Hollie Arnett  48:23  

Um, I think the things that have been the most effective for me in marketing, my business is having a very, like relational or relationship-based approach to marketing. Like, I know, people say this all the time, but I am so about like community over competition. I do not care how many other branding people are out there. Like I will work with them. And I do like I have a series on my Instagram, where I get a bunch of women who are branding specialists to come together and talk about a topic every month. And I love doing that because like, Well, I have many opinions. But there are like a lot of men who are the same like branding men who get, you know, put on conferences and things like that all the time. So I love bringing together people who don't always have an opportunity to talk or I think who are incredible, and really smart and talented and have a lot to offer. So I love bringing them together. We get to share like all of our knowledge collectively with our audiences, we get to collaborate on stuff. And I think like, that's always been my approach is like just give and give back and collaborate with each other and be very relationship-based and you know, things like hopping on your podcast, I love doing stuff like this because we get to connect, like, I can share your podcast, you can share my story, like, there's so much good that comes out of things like this. And I think thats always just been my approach is like, how can I try and help these people? How can I? How can we help each other? How can we share each other's stuff or just cheer each other along? Like I'm always in people's stories replies with the like, fire emoji or things like that, you know, just cheering people on being friends with people. Um, so I think yeah. And like I said, like, I always love doing that in person as well at events and stuff. But that's obviously less doable in today's current situation. So I just yeah, I'm loving doing that online as well. And that's yeah, always, I guess been my approach is like, just give as much as I can give back as much as I can go back to my uni, write stuff about branding for other brands to help them and help their audiences like, yeah, I just want to make connections and friendships and relationships, and they cheer me on. I cheer there on too, cheer them on. It's all just a big, happy time. Yeah, yeah.

Emma Peacock  51:22  

It's fun. Like, it's just fun to approach it that way.

Hollie Arnett  51:26  

Yeah. For sure. Like, there is so much, you know, feelings of like comparison and competition. And that kind of stuff can come up on the internet. But I think if you have that, like collaboration and community approach, it makes things way more chill, because you're like, no, there's room for all of us. Let's all just hang out and celebrate each other. And we can all succeed. So yeah, it makes it less stressful.

Emma Peacock  51:55  

Yeah, and rather than it being about, like, how do you get your slice of the pie? It's like, how can we make the pie bigger? So that, there's enough for everyone.

Hollie Arnett  52:04  

And the pie more equal? Yes. Right. How can, like, that's my thing is that how can I instead of this one person getting all the pie? Was everybody get a piece?

Emma Peacock  52:15  

Yeah. Yeah. It's like the fence down around the pie. Yes. Alrighty, so let's move into the quickfire round. So where do you get the most of your website traffic or sales from?

Hollie Arnett  52:30  

Website traffic? Definitely. From my like, Seo. My blog. Yeah.

Emma Peacock  52:35  

Yeah. Do you have any stats on your sales? where they come from? If it's the same, or?

Hollie Arnett  52:42  

Sales through either that or referrals. Or like, or Instagram. Actually, I do get a lot. Not directly through Instagram, but people follow me on Instagram and then end up in my things. Yeah.

Emma Peacock  52:54  

Yeah. Slowly in their loop. Yeah, loop around and then eventually they land there. Yeah.

Emma Peacock  53:00  

What's your favorite place on the internet right now?

Hollie Arnett  53:04  

Instagram.

Emma Peacock  53:05  

Nice. Nice. What are you looking forward to the most in the next year of business?

Hollie Arnett  53:12  

Oh, I am just looking forward to like doing what I do and doing it. Well. I'm not in like a period now of adding new things. I'm done with the new things and like shifting and changing. I'm like, okay, this is where we are let's just make this really good.

Emma Peacock  53:34  

Nice, nice. What about what are you looking forward to the most in the offline world?

Hollie Arnett  53:41  

I am very focused right now on like, having my own time. And like living actually having a life outside of my business because it hasn't been that way for a long time. So I'm having a lot of fun, like, just creating for creating sake, I'm learning to sew. I'm doing a lot of reading. I started like a bookstagram where I can just take photos and be nerdy about books. So I'm just having fun being creative and having having fun. Yeah.

Emma Peacock  54:14  

Nice. So if someone is listening to this episode, and they want to grow their own coaching, business or strategy business, what is the one thing you recommend they do next?

Hollie Arnett  54:27  

The one thing I would recommend you do next is to get clear on why you're doing, what you're doing, and who you're doing it for and what that kind of result is going to be and then just share that everywhere.

Emma Peacock  54:54  

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Digital Hive Podcast. I'm your host Emma Peacock and today, our guest Was Holly Arnett of Maker & Moxie. If you're in need of your own brand strategy, you can find out more at makerandmoxie.com. There's also a link in the show notes where you can find the ultimate branding checklist. If you're enjoying the podcast, I'd love it if you could share it with a friend on Instagram and tag us @honeypotdigital. To find out more about Honey Pot Digital and the work we do or to find more episodes of the podcast and handy tips for small businesses marketing online head to honeypotdigital.com

‍